It is my opinion that the church group may have been trying to do the right thing, but they did it in the wrong way. First of all, there would have been no documentation of the children, so they would not be able to find their families when they are older. To my understanding, it was also behind the governments back. This act may have caused more confusion at a chaotic time.
I agree with Sarah that they might've meant well, but did it in a stupid way. If you want to help Haiti don't steal there kids, instead try to put the place back together. In this article I also noticed that it never said whether the kids cared or not. Don't they have a say?!
I understand that the church group was trying to do the right thing...but trying and doing are two different things. And opening that door of "stealing" children also opens the door to child trafficers and other illegal kidnappings. I think the group should of been better prepared and researched HOW to take the kids out of the country instead of just winging it...
I belive that they were trying to do the rigth thing by helping the children. It would of defintly been safer for the children to be brought somewhere safer away from all the destruction, But, like leslie and sarah i think they could of done it diffrently, by notifying the goverment and the parents or other familyof the children
It was wrong of them to try to take the children from there home. It is kidnapping, if they meant well or not. These kids should not be taken out of Haiti. The article states that some families were told that they took the kids for a better life. It is wrong to tear apart families like that. If they really cared that much about the fate of children in Haiti, maybe they should put money towards the cause and help more then just thirty three kids out of the some thousand kids there. Stealing kids from families so they have a better life is wrong in my opinion. The ends do not justify the means.
I see both sides of this. I think it's good that they want to help the kids but taking them out of their home without anyone knowing is kind of bad. If they wanted to take them out of Haiti they should have asked for permission first. What they did is kind of called kidnapping!
It is my belief that stealing children ant trying to smuggle them is a crime, no matter where you live. I agree with Chace by him saying that they should have put money towards the reconstructing of Haiti. Instead of building an out of country oprhanage, I believe that they should have got the permission of the Haiti goverment to either build an orphanage in Haiti; or they should have asked the Haiti goverment for permission to take them out of there country.
This whole thing is just a huge mix up that could have been avoided, but honestly it was the church people who screwed up. They say that god was guiding them to do this but then what god are they listening to. You don't go out on the streets of a devestated country and go pick up kids you come across and offer them a better life and justify by saying it was god who was guiding you. That's like saying a child predator who goes along the streets coaxing kids into his car with candy is fine as long as he says god is guiding them. So hopefully this whole thing is sorted out soon and those who can return to their families can and that the world learns a lesson from all this.
Stealing kids from there families is wrong. I get the fact that they just wanted to help the kids. First of all they should help the whole family to not just the kids, because if the kids are put in an orphanage outside the country, without there family, they would be just as frightened. They need to help the whole family so they can stay as a family and not be torn a part. Then for the orphan kids they should contact the Haiti government and ask permission and both sides come up with a plan on how to help those kids. Hopefully they can help as many as they can...child traffiking is scary.
What the missionaries did was wrong in some cases like when they picked the kids up off the street assuming they didn't have a family. In other cases, they weren't the only ones to blame because around half of the kids were given to the missionaries by the kids' parents. I think that the parents should also be charged with child endangerment and have their children taken from them; but then that would also hurt the children, so they can't do that or could they? What do you think, should the government charge the parents that handed over their children, even though it might emotionally scar the children? They would then have to be put in an orphanage any way.
In Haiti, most of the countries citizens live in poverty, the kids and their parents have nothing. So lets say the missionaries took the kids out of the country illegally. Would it be right to tear a family apart to give that kid a better life in another country?
I don't think that the missionaries were going to sell the kids into slavery. But in many parts of the world slavery still exists in one way or another. Even some of the greatest civilizations had slavery for thousands of years. Whether it is in a third world country or right here in America. It is sad to think about how far we have come as a people to still have this looming over our shoulders. Do you think that slavery will ever be completely ended?
My Proposed Question Answers (to Eben's Q's): 1. Although this would make sense in America, or most other countries, I do not believe that it would be a viable option in such a torn country. Right now I don't think that their government would or is going to put too much concern into this matter, besides sorting out legal issues, for it is quite inconsequential compared to the countless other tragedies commencing in Haiti at the moment. 2. I would say no, they should not charge the parents of the children. Although I am not sure that the Haitian government would agree. I believe that they have enough going on to give very much attention to this incident, but it will raise the governments awareness about child traffickers and other types of threats to the children of Haiti. 3. In my opinion it would not be right to tear a family apart as such, but in a way it may be the better thing to do for both the children and the parents. If they are struggling in poverty and do not make enough money to support children then maybe the children should be brought into better care, at least for the time being. 4. As for slavery we can only hope that one day it will be gone. Also, yes it is tragic when you think of the horrible things Americans along with other countries have done in the act of enslaving. We need to continue to fight against slavery in the future if we ever wish to see it completely ended.
Now to comment the article, I agree with basically everyone, in that the church group did wrong but their intentions were most likely good. Whether or not they should be arrested and put under penalty of law by Haiti or the U.S. is questionable. Aside from that matter if they are involved with Haiti again, they should focus on not finding relief and distance for some. Rather to make better the situation in Haiti and help fix their issues from within, along with any needed legal consent from the government this time.
I agree with everyone's comments. The church group should have asked for permission to do take the children out of their country. They weren't exactly doing a good thing but making things worse at a hard time. I also agree with what Chace and Avenge the Rev (By the way... who are you?) about the putting the money towards reconstruction for Haiti. Kidnapping was not a good thing for the church group today.
I completely agree with all of what Spaz said. They probably weren't thinking through the consequences of taking these children before they went through with it. Like Chace said, helping pay for the destruction would have been so much more help than taking thirty three kids. Creating this controversy has just built up more chaos for these already frazzled people.
I think that the people that were kidnapping all of the kids were crazy and wrong. I get that they were trying to save the kids but taking them from their families is just wrong and it should not have been done.
Personally, I think that these people do not deserve the punishment they are getting. The church group was trying to help and DO NOT deserve to go to jail for this. I know this may have been scary for the kids, but getting them out of Haiti and out of all the chaos was a smart thing to do. It is not called kidnapping since they meant no harm to the kids. They did a kind thing in a dumb way and people are blowing it way out of proportion.
I disagree with Kendall, they kidnapped them and got caught smuggling them out of the country without permission form either parents or their goverment
If you looked at Eben's comment and read other articles, you would see that some of the parents gave the missionaries the kids. You make it sound like they just ran up and took the kids right out of the parent's hands. (Though I do not think it's okay to just give your kids to someone)
What should be done with the church group then? Should they be let off with a fair warning for attempting to take the kids out of the country? No. The planet we live on is built on consequences for people's actions. If we do not at least give the church group some kind of a punishment, then what is stopping them from doing it again? They knew what they were doing was illegal when they did it. It doesn't matter if their hearts were in the right place when they did it or not. It is brought down like this: Your town is hit by a tornado, and is in a state of disaster. Now someone comes to your house, which is in wreckage, sees your child and walks over to him. He tells the child that he is bringing him to the next town over because it's nicer there... It will all be for the greater good. You are at a neighbor's trying to help them with a problem because it hit them the worst. Then another man comes over to your neighbor and says, "I'm sorry... But your child looks hurt, and we want to take him to a nicer place... wouldn't you like that?" Then your neighbor obliges and gives the child over. Not only is this somewhat of an embarrassment to the parents, but to the town itself. I mean, wouldn't you rather the man who came to take your child, and the man who talked to your neighbor about taking their child to a better place, just picked up a hammer and helped you guys fix your neighbor's house?
I agree but disagree with the Church group's act in Haiti. I mean, I can understand they were trying to help Haitian children find a better hope for themselves, but taking children without government permission is illeagal. What I think they should have done was confront the Haitian government to get permission to take these children to a safer enviorment until their country is rebuilt and safe to be in. Helping others is a thoughtful act of kindness, but not while done illeagally.
I think the jury is still out on the bottom line about how these Missionaries should be charged. On the surface, it looks like their mission was to rescue orphaned children in the midst of a disaster and somehow encountered parents who willingly asked them to take their children to safer ground. I suppose if you were in the middle of something so horrific and you thought your very family's lives were at stake, you might consider asking someone to 'rescue' your children. It's just unclear how this all came about, but considering the reputations of these missionaries and what their original intention was, it's hard to believe they coerced anyone to let them take their children. Though they should have gone through proper channels, there really is no crime in helping someone if you are asked....it's just unclear how much the parents had to do with what happened to be ready to pass sentence on the missionaries.Everybody seems ready to lump these people in with every other opportunistic criminal out there when that probably couldn't be further from the truth. Why don't we all just wait until all the pieces are put together before we start criticizing the picture!!!
The pieces are as together as they ever will. The article is already completed. Unless someone goes into some deep research on the subject, no more will be uncovered about this. According to the article the church group did coerce the parents: "(the children) were placed in the care of the U.S. church group after their families were promised they would have a better life." It cannot be said that this is fact, but it is what the article makes it out to be. No, they are not being opportunistic criminals. They are just a group of people who wanted to help. They just did it in the wrong way. They could have helped in a better more efficient way, and a legal way. They wanted to help kids have a better life. In that case, help them by helping their parents. Build back the society they came from. When the parents told them to take their kids, instead tell them that they will help make their town better for everyone. The church group made the wrong choices for the right reasons... With very little thought they could have handled their mission a lot better than they did.
In my opinion, I think the group might have been trying to do a good thing at a hard time, but I certainly believe there were better ways to do it. First of all, I think that instead of trying to smuggle the kids to a safer place, they should have notified the Haitian government with their plan. Although I believe helping out people in a hard time is a great thing, it is not so great when it is done illegally. I also think that they should have tried to keep the families together, because children aren't the only ones struggling. However, on another hand, we are not the ones in the group, so we can never be sure of the group's intentions. Their intentions may have been good ones, but they really should have notified the government and gotten the permission. Although it may not have been as intented, every act has a consequence, and next time they should think their plan through.
Kendall has a point. The church group took the kids in a stupid way and there were better ways "take" them. I also agree with all the ways Amanda said the church group could have helped the children.
Spaz, taking the children is not a good thing. By saying it is a good thing is wrong. They think that just because they have God's permission it is all right. How would you like it if somebody came up to you and asked if you wanted candy, but said it was in their van. Then when they get caught, they say that they had God's permission.
Avenge the Rev, what you said makes little to no sense. The church group was 100% serious about taking the kids to the U.S. They weren't kidnappers per say, though they still did do the crime. They offered these kids a new life and the kids took it. But they could have taken a more legal approach towards it and a more effective one. The God's permission has nothing to do with it. It was there morals and conscience that gave them any idea to do it. They wanted to help someone out, that is their excuse... The focus on the line that god told them to do so should be dropped, because that really is such a small detail. Please, do agree... :)
Chace think about it though, what would you do if someone came and took you out of your own country away from your family? How would you feel if they didn't even have permission from your parents? Just for one second, imagine yourself in their skin, and imagine you having all that fear of being taken away from the only way of life you have ever known. Imagine that you have never been away from your village, let alone your country. Can you honestly say that these people were justified in taking these kids away from their parents and home? Now answer that while imagining their fear of the unknown and the stangers who took them.
That is pretty unlikely. Imagine this for a second. Your parents were killed in the earthquake when the roof caved in. You are lost and confused when you come out of the fallen building you were hiding out in. You don't know your parents are dead yet, considering the confusion during the hit. You find a friend who also survived and wait for your parents, but they don't come. Two weeks later strangers come up to you offering to take you and your friend out of the destruction. Not only that but they are talking to the parents of other neighbors to take their kids with too. It sounds like these strangers were trying to be the good guys. The church group didn't go into Haiti forcing kids to come with them. They went on their own. They were awaiting the unknown thinking: "Anything could be better than this." No, honestly, the people weren't justified in taking their kids. I'm just saying, these kids didn't get forced along... They went by their own will and it was their decision when they went. They were scared and confused, and someone lent them a hand. So they closed their eyes, swallowed hard, then grabbed and hoped that it would take them to a less confusing, scary place. But as I said before, I don't condone what the church group did. I wish they would have lent their hands out in other ways. They could have tried to help the children find their parents or people who would take care of them there. There was so many other things they could have done.
I do agree with you Chase but the problem with haiti is that even before this catastrophe hit Haiti was having problems with child trafficking. So with the church group going around and "taking" kids to a better place can, AND will encourage real life threats such as child traffickers to use the churches excuses. Excuses such as god told us to or as you said well your friend and neighbor is going with us too so you should be fine too. Its not practicle. I do like that you don't condone what they did but there is a deaper problem going on in haiti. The sad thing though that its not going to get any better as long as their are children in the streets and their are people out there that are looking for them to be used as underground slaves.
When I made my comment I was simply saying to Avenge the Rev that the children went with the church group out of their own will. I completely agree with everything you said. That is the entire reason why the church group should be punished for what they did. It is terribly sad that there are slavers out there still who are looking for kids like the ones in Haiti. It is so terribly sad when you see a story like this because, this is just a church group that meant no harm. Anyone who meant harm could just as easily have done the same thing.
I think it is possible that the "missionaries" or more likely their leader Laura silsby could have been trying to sell the children. I base this on evidence that she was having money problems. This is possible motive for kidnapping the kids and possibly trying to sell them. This hasn't been totally proven yet, its just a hypothesis.the article is at http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/05/world/americas/05idaho.html
Avenge the Rev, they were just trying to help the children by taking them out of Haiti. Sure they did it in a bad way but their hearts were in the right place.
I COMPLETELY DISAGREE WITH EBEN. I think it's horrible that they would bring her personal and financial business into this chaos. Why would nine other people go to Haiti, spending their own money and time, to help find children to sell? What motive would they have?
The most likely motive for the team that went with her would probably also be money. Check out this article: http://www.time.com/time/asia/features/slavery/cover.html
If they were able to sell these kids at the lower end of the bargain at 30,000 dollars a piece they would make close to a million dollars. That's about 100 k a for each one of them, which is probably just about a years pay for each of them. The market for such an illegal item causes the buyers to pay just as much as they would for a used 2007 Cadillac Escalade.
I agree that the Church was trying to the right thing but did it in the wrong way. Taking the children out of the country behind the governments back with no documentation was wrong and just as Sarah said, if the children wanted to relocate their families it would be extremely difficult.
I agree that the church group was trying to do a good thing, but they did it in the wrong way. If they really wanted to help Haiti, they could have figured out a better way. For example, what Amanda was saying. They should have tryed to keep the families together rather than just taking their kids. But at the same time, i also agree with Kendall, in a way. They didn't mean any harm to the kids, so we can't really call it kidnapping. The church group should have contacted the government first, before going on with their plan.
The church group was indeed trying to do a good thing for the children who survived this devastation. But they should have informed the government that they were going to take the children. The children probably didn't know where they were going, so they probably wanted to stay in their homeland, even though it was destroyed. And why would they only take the children and not the adults? The group should have just left the kids with their parents and they could've found another way to live after this devastation.
It astonishes me that parents were so willing to give their children away to a foreign church group. If you decide to have kids, they are your responsibility until they turn eighteen. It is your duty to place them in a SAFE environment if you cannot sufficiently care for them.
In my opinion, I believe that the children should have had a say in this situation. If they were old enough to understand what was going on, they should have been the deciding factor. I understand that everyone was suffering from extreme trauma, but that is no excuse for not consulting the children. I think the church group is mainly at fault in this situation, but something must be said about the fact that the parents did not fully consider the kids' feelings (as far as I know).
Here is a question: If the church group was trying to do the right thing why would they not go through government channels? About kaylas' comment in Haiti people as young as 15 are put in adult prisons. Also most Haitians don't have enough to support them selves let alone a child and about safe environment in Haiti their is not many safe places for the poor. So I could see why a parent in Haiti would want to give their child away or sell them in to slavery. If the parent sold the kid to the slave trade they would probably get enough money to support them for a year at the least.
Eben, I agree with you for the most part. What you pointed out definitely makes the American church group appear shady. Were they truly involved in the slave trade? That is what I'm beginning to think, but I can not be certain without more details. If these parents were willing to simply give their children away, perhaps money really was the motive. Why else would all these people go about the situation illegally? Nevertheless, it is impossible to know exactly what transpired. It is still possible that the parents wanted the best for their children and truly believed the small church group. After all, the orphanage was supposed to be just across the island, and they were living in destruction at the time.
It would be interesting to point that out. Their entire mistake could have been solved by simple common sense. You would think that one of the ten would have had the sense of one of us. I find it hard to believe that anyone would take up that deal though. It's just so inhumane to sell another human being that I don't think I'd do it for even a million dollars.
WOW! Very impressed with your comments. Can't wait to see what you bring to class on Friday!!!! Just wanted to say that you have to keep in mind the devastation these families have just endured. In tragedy people do things they wouldn't otherwise do. The sad thing is, at the time I'm sure they feel giving their kids a new life is best, but may regret their decision once their lives start to go back to normal.
I'm not sure how I feel about this. Although these people's "hearts were in the right place" what they did was still wrong. I understand that they wanted better lives for the children, but I don't think taking children away from their families is healthy for them.
personally, I think that the church group should not go to jail. They obviously weren't trying to kidnap the kids. On the other hand, if they wanted to help the kids they should have just gone through the government. They have already gotten punished enough from the fear of going to jail. Also, the kids should have definitely had a say in what was happening to them. They were old enough to understand what's going on.
I believe the people did the wrong thing. I think they should just help the country instead of taking people out. Even though the people believed what they did was right, all is does is hurt the family they took the child from.
I agree with what most of you are saying; the church group may have thought they were helping, but instead they were actully hurting the children. As for the theroies on the church group taking the children as slaves, will we ever know? We will just have to wait and see.
i think that if the parents of the children wanted the kids to be taken out of the counrty for they childrens sake then the church group was doing the right thing. But i also think that it was a little sketchy that there was no orphange and the church leader was in debt. where were they going to get the money to build this orphange?
I think that the church group should have gone to the government before they even thought about taking the childern out of the country. Maybe they might even have been taking them out to use them as child slaves since they didn't go to register with the officials of the country. Even if they knew what they were doing, they went about it the wrong way.
The "Church Group" was in the wrong by trying to take children out of the country in the first place. I think if they were real people trying to help, they would of got permission from the government. But all of their reasons for this doesn't really make sense.
I agree that what the church group did was wrong. However, I also believe that they were only trying to help. But then again they should have asked for permission from the government and they did end up hurting the children. But they didnt mean to hurt they ment to help.Right now its hard to decide the wrong and the right.
It is my opinion that the church group may have been trying to do the right thing, but they did it in the wrong way. First of all, there would have been no documentation of the children, so they would not be able to find their families when they are older. To my understanding, it was also behind the governments back. This act may have caused more confusion at a chaotic time.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Sarah that they might've meant well, but did it in a stupid way. If you want to help Haiti don't steal there kids, instead try to put the place back together. In this article I also noticed that it never said whether the kids cared or not. Don't they have a say?!
ReplyDeleteI understand that the church group was trying to do the right thing...but trying and doing are two different things. And opening that door of "stealing" children also opens the door to child trafficers and other illegal kidnappings. I think the group should of been better prepared and researched HOW to take the kids out of the country instead of just winging it...
ReplyDeleteI belive that they were trying to do the rigth thing by helping the children. It would of defintly been safer for the children to be brought somewhere safer away from all the destruction, But, like leslie and sarah i think they could of done it diffrently, by notifying the goverment and the parents or other familyof the children
ReplyDeleteIt was wrong of them to try to take the children from there home. It is kidnapping, if they meant well or not. These kids should not be taken out of Haiti. The article states that some families were told that they took the kids for a better life. It is wrong to tear apart families like that. If they really cared that much about the fate of children in Haiti, maybe they should put money towards the cause and help more then just thirty three kids out of the some thousand kids there. Stealing kids from families so they have a better life is wrong in my opinion. The ends do not justify the means.
ReplyDeleteI see both sides of this. I think it's good that they want to help the kids but taking them out of their home without anyone knowing is kind of bad. If they wanted to take them out of Haiti they should have asked for permission first. What they did is kind of called kidnapping!
ReplyDeleteIt is my belief that stealing children ant trying to smuggle them is a crime, no matter where you live. I agree with Chace by him saying that they should have put money towards the reconstructing of Haiti. Instead of building an out of country oprhanage, I believe that they should have got the permission of the Haiti goverment to either build an orphanage in Haiti; or they should have asked the Haiti goverment for permission to take them out of there country.
ReplyDeleteThis whole thing is just a huge mix up that could have been avoided, but honestly it was the church people who screwed up. They say that god was guiding them to do this but then what god are they listening to. You don't go out on the streets of a devestated country and go pick up kids you come across and offer them a better life and justify by saying it was god who was guiding you. That's like saying a child predator who goes along the streets coaxing kids into his car with candy is fine as long as he says god is guiding them. So hopefully this whole thing is sorted out soon and those who can return to their families can and that the world learns a lesson from all this.
ReplyDeleteStealing kids from there families is wrong. I get the fact that they just wanted to help the kids. First of all they should help the whole family to not just the kids, because if the kids are put in an orphanage outside the country, without there family, they would be just as frightened. They need to help the whole family so they can stay as a family and not be torn a part. Then for the orphan kids they should contact the Haiti government and ask permission and both sides come up with a plan on how to help those kids. Hopefully they can help as many as they can...child traffiking is scary.
ReplyDeleteWhat the missionaries did was wrong in some cases like when they picked the kids up off the street assuming they didn't have a family. In other cases, they weren't the only ones to blame because around half of the kids were given to the missionaries by the kids' parents. I think that the parents should also be charged with child endangerment and have their children taken from them; but then that would also hurt the children, so they can't do that or could they? What do you think, should the government charge the parents that handed over their children, even though it might emotionally scar the children? They would then have to be put in an orphanage any way.
ReplyDeleteIn Haiti, most of the countries citizens live in poverty, the kids and their parents have nothing. So lets say the missionaries took the kids out of the country illegally. Would it be right to tear a family apart to give that kid a better life in another country?
I don't think that the missionaries were going to sell the kids into slavery. But in many parts of the world slavery still exists in one way or another. Even some of the greatest civilizations had slavery for thousands of years. Whether it is in a third world country or right here in America. It is sad to think about how far we have come as a people to still have this looming over our shoulders. Do you think that slavery will ever be completely ended?
My Proposed Question Answers (to Eben's Q's):
ReplyDelete1. Although this would make sense in America, or most other countries, I do not believe that it would be a viable option in such a torn country. Right now I don't think that their government would or is going to put too much concern into this matter, besides sorting out legal issues, for it is quite inconsequential compared to the countless other tragedies commencing in Haiti at the moment.
2. I would say no, they should not charge the parents of the children. Although I am not sure that the Haitian government would agree. I believe that they have enough going on to give very much attention to this incident, but it will raise the governments awareness about child traffickers and other types of threats to the children of Haiti.
3. In my opinion it would not be right to tear a family apart as such, but in a way it may be the better thing to do for both the children and the parents. If they are struggling in poverty and do not make enough money to support children then maybe the children should be brought into better care, at least for the time being.
4. As for slavery we can only hope that one day it will be gone. Also, yes it is tragic when you think of the horrible things Americans along with other countries have done in the act of enslaving. We need to continue to fight against slavery in the future if we ever wish to see it completely ended.
Now to comment the article, I agree with basically everyone, in that the church group did wrong but their intentions were most likely good. Whether or not they should be arrested and put under penalty of law by Haiti or the U.S. is questionable. Aside from that matter if they are involved with Haiti again, they should focus on not finding relief and distance for some. Rather to make better the situation in Haiti and help fix their issues from within, along with any needed legal consent from the government this time.
I agree with everyone's comments. The church group should have asked for permission to do take the children out of their country. They weren't exactly doing a good thing but making things worse at a hard time. I also agree with what Chace and Avenge the Rev (By the way... who are you?) about the putting the money towards reconstruction for Haiti. Kidnapping was not a good thing for the church group today.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with all of what Spaz said. They probably weren't thinking through the consequences of taking these children before they went through with it. Like Chace said, helping pay for the destruction would have been so much more help than taking thirty three kids. Creating this controversy has just built up more chaos for these already frazzled people.
ReplyDeleteI think that the people that were kidnapping all of the kids were crazy and wrong. I get that they were trying to save the kids but taking them from their families is just wrong and it should not have been done.
ReplyDeleteAvenger the Rev is not Logan Graham (wink wink) :)
ReplyDeletePersonally, I think that these people do not deserve the punishment they are getting. The church group was trying to help and DO NOT deserve to go to jail for this. I know this may have been scary for the kids, but getting them out of Haiti and out of all the chaos was a smart thing to do. It is not called kidnapping since they meant no harm to the kids. They did a kind thing in a dumb way and people are blowing it way out of proportion.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with Kendall, they kidnapped them and got caught smuggling them out of the country without permission form either parents or their goverment
ReplyDeleteIf you looked at Eben's comment and read other articles, you would see that some of the parents gave the missionaries the kids. You make it sound like they just ran up and took the kids right out of the parent's hands. (Though I do not think it's okay to just give your kids to someone)
ReplyDeleteWhat should be done with the church group then? Should they be let off with a fair warning for attempting to take the kids out of the country? No. The planet we live on is built on consequences for people's actions. If we do not at least give the church group some kind of a punishment, then what is stopping them from doing it again? They knew what they were doing was illegal when they did it. It doesn't matter if their hearts were in the right place when they did it or not.
ReplyDeleteIt is brought down like this: Your town is hit by a tornado, and is in a state of disaster. Now someone comes to your house, which is in wreckage, sees your child and walks over to him. He tells the child that he is bringing him to the next town over because it's nicer there... It will all be for the greater good. You are at a neighbor's trying to help them with a problem because it hit them the worst. Then another man comes over to your neighbor and says, "I'm sorry... But your child looks hurt, and we want to take him to a nicer place... wouldn't you like that?" Then your neighbor obliges and gives the child over. Not only is this somewhat of an embarrassment to the parents, but to the town itself. I mean, wouldn't you rather the man who came to take your child, and the man who talked to your neighbor about taking their child to a better place, just picked up a hammer and helped you guys fix your neighbor's house?
I agree but disagree with the Church group's act in Haiti. I mean, I can understand they were trying to help Haitian children find a better hope for themselves, but taking children without government permission is illeagal. What I think they should have done was confront the Haitian government to get permission to take these children to a safer enviorment until their country is rebuilt and safe to be in. Helping others is a thoughtful act of kindness, but not while done illeagally.
ReplyDeleteI think the jury is still out on the bottom line about how these Missionaries should be charged. On the surface, it looks like their mission was to rescue orphaned children in the midst of a disaster and somehow encountered parents who willingly asked them to take their children to safer ground. I suppose if you were in the middle of something so horrific and you thought your very family's lives were at stake, you might consider asking someone to 'rescue' your children. It's just unclear how this all came about, but considering the reputations of these missionaries and what their original intention was, it's hard to believe they coerced anyone to let them take their children. Though they should have gone through proper channels, there really is no crime in helping someone if you are asked....it's just unclear how much the parents had to do with what happened to be ready to pass sentence on the missionaries.Everybody seems ready to lump these people in with every other opportunistic criminal out there when that probably couldn't be further from the truth. Why don't we all just wait until all the pieces are put together before we start criticizing the picture!!!
ReplyDeleteThe pieces are as together as they ever will. The article is already completed. Unless someone goes into some deep research on the subject, no more will be uncovered about this. According to the article the church group did coerce the parents: "(the children) were placed in the care of the U.S. church group after their families were promised they would have a better life."
ReplyDeleteIt cannot be said that this is fact, but it is what the article makes it out to be. No, they are not being opportunistic criminals. They are just a group of people who wanted to help. They just did it in the wrong way. They could have helped in a better more efficient way, and a legal way. They wanted to help kids have a better life. In that case, help them by helping their parents. Build back the society they came from. When the parents told them to take their kids, instead tell them that they will help make their town better for everyone. The church group made the wrong choices for the right reasons... With very little thought they could have handled their mission a lot better than they did.
In my opinion, I think the group might have been trying to do a good thing at a hard time, but I certainly believe there were better ways to do it. First of all, I think that instead of trying to smuggle the kids to a safer place, they should have notified the Haitian government with their plan. Although I believe helping out people in a hard time is a great thing, it is not so great when it is done illegally. I also think that they should have tried to keep the families together, because children aren't the only ones struggling. However, on another hand, we are not the ones in the group, so we can never be sure of the group's intentions. Their intentions may have been good ones, but they really should have notified the government and gotten the permission. Although it may not have been as intented, every act has a consequence, and next time they should think their plan through.
ReplyDeleteKendall has a point. The church group took the kids in a stupid way and there were better ways "take" them. I also agree with all the ways Amanda said the church group could have helped the children.
ReplyDeleteSpaz, taking the children is not a good thing. By saying it is a good thing is wrong. They think that just because they have God's permission it is all right. How would you like it if somebody came up to you and asked if you wanted candy, but said it was in their van. Then when they get caught, they say that they had God's permission.
ReplyDeleteAvenge the Rev, what you said makes little to no sense. The church group was 100% serious about taking the kids to the U.S. They weren't kidnappers per say, though they still did do the crime. They offered these kids a new life and the kids took it. But they could have taken a more legal approach towards it and a more effective one. The God's permission has nothing to do with it. It was there morals and conscience that gave them any idea to do it. They wanted to help someone out, that is their excuse... The focus on the line that god told them to do so should be dropped, because that really is such a small detail. Please, do agree... :)
ReplyDeleteChace think about it though, what would you do if someone came and took you out of your own country away from your family? How would you feel if they didn't even have permission from your parents? Just for one second, imagine yourself in their skin, and imagine you having all that fear of being taken away from the only way of life you have ever known. Imagine that you have never been away from your village, let alone your country. Can you honestly say that these people were justified in taking these kids away from their parents and home? Now answer that while imagining their fear of the unknown and the stangers who took them.
ReplyDeleteThat is pretty unlikely. Imagine this for a second. Your parents were killed in the earthquake when the roof caved in. You are lost and confused when you come out of the fallen building you were hiding out in. You don't know your parents are dead yet, considering the confusion during the hit. You find a friend who also survived and wait for your parents, but they don't come. Two weeks later strangers come up to you offering to take you and your friend out of the destruction. Not only that but they are talking to the parents of other neighbors to take their kids with too. It sounds like these strangers were trying to be the good guys.
ReplyDeleteThe church group didn't go into Haiti forcing kids to come with them. They went on their own. They were awaiting the unknown thinking: "Anything could be better than this."
No, honestly, the people weren't justified in taking their kids. I'm just saying, these kids didn't get forced along... They went by their own will and it was their decision when they went. They were scared and confused, and someone lent them a hand. So they closed their eyes, swallowed hard, then grabbed and hoped that it would take them to a less confusing, scary place.
But as I said before, I don't condone what the church group did. I wish they would have lent their hands out in other ways. They could have tried to help the children find their parents or people who would take care of them there. There was so many other things they could have done.
I do agree with you Chase but the problem with haiti is that even before this catastrophe hit Haiti was having problems with child trafficking. So with the church group going around and "taking" kids to a better place can, AND will encourage real life threats such as child traffickers to use the churches excuses. Excuses such as god told us to or as you said well your friend and neighbor is going with us too so you should be fine too. Its not practicle. I do like that you don't condone what they did but there is a deaper problem going on in haiti. The sad thing though that its not going to get any better as long as their are children in the streets and their are people out there that are looking for them to be used as underground slaves.
ReplyDeleteWhen I made my comment I was simply saying to Avenge the Rev that the children went with the church group out of their own will. I completely agree with everything you said. That is the entire reason why the church group should be punished for what they did. It is terribly sad that there are slavers out there still who are looking for kids like the ones in Haiti. It is so terribly sad when you see a story like this because, this is just a church group that meant no harm. Anyone who meant harm could just as easily have done the same thing.
ReplyDeleteI think the group meant well but dealt with it the wrong way. They should have had some paperwork saying they could do what they wanted to do.
ReplyDeleteI think it is possible that the "missionaries" or more likely their leader Laura silsby could have been trying to sell the children. I base this on evidence that she was having money problems. This is possible motive for kidnapping the kids and possibly trying to sell them. This hasn't been totally proven yet, its just a hypothesis.the article is at http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/05/world/americas/05idaho.html
ReplyDeleteAvenge the Rev, they were just trying to help the children by taking them out of Haiti. Sure they did it in a bad way but their hearts were in the right place.
ReplyDeleteI COMPLETELY DISAGREE WITH EBEN. I think it's horrible that they would bring her personal and financial business into this chaos. Why would nine other people go to Haiti, spending their own money and time, to help find children to sell? What motive would they have?
ReplyDeleteThe most likely motive for the team that went with her would probably also be money.
ReplyDeleteCheck out this article:
http://www.time.com/time/asia/features/slavery/cover.html
If they were able to sell these kids at the lower end of the bargain at 30,000 dollars a piece they would make close to a million dollars. That's about 100 k a for each one of them, which is probably just about a years pay for each of them. The market for such an illegal item causes the buyers to pay just as much as they would for a used 2007 Cadillac Escalade.
I agree that the Church was trying to the right thing but did it in the wrong way. Taking the children out of the country behind the governments back with no documentation was wrong and just as Sarah said, if the children wanted to relocate their families it would be extremely difficult.
ReplyDeleteI agree that the church group was trying to do a good thing, but they did it in the wrong way. If they really wanted to help Haiti, they could have figured out a better way. For example, what Amanda was saying. They should have tryed to keep the families together rather than just taking their kids. But at the same time, i also agree with Kendall, in a way. They didn't mean any harm to the kids, so we can't really call it kidnapping. The church group should have contacted the government first, before going on with their plan.
ReplyDeleteThe church group was indeed trying to do a good thing for the children who survived this devastation. But they should have informed the government that they were going to take the children. The children probably didn't know where they were going, so they probably wanted to stay in their homeland, even though it was destroyed. And why would they only take the children and not the adults? The group should have just left the kids with their parents and they could've found another way to live after this devastation.
ReplyDeleteIt astonishes me that parents were so willing to give their children away to a foreign church group. If you decide to have kids, they are your responsibility until they turn eighteen. It is your duty to place them in a SAFE environment if you cannot sufficiently care for them.
ReplyDeleteI just want to say... YEAAHH Kayla! I agree with you! :)
ReplyDeleteWowsa... i think our class sounds pretty smart...!
ReplyDeleteI also want to say that I completely agree with Kayla!
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, I believe that the children should have had a say in this situation. If they were old enough to understand what was going on, they should have been the deciding factor. I understand that everyone was suffering from extreme trauma, but that is no excuse for not consulting the children. I think the church group is mainly at fault in this situation, but something must be said about the fact that the parents did not fully consider the kids' feelings (as far as I know).
ReplyDeleteHere is a question: If the church group was trying to do the right thing why would they not go through government channels? About kaylas' comment in Haiti people as young as 15 are put in adult prisons. Also most Haitians don't have enough to support them selves let alone a child and about safe environment in Haiti their is not many safe places for the poor. So I could see why a parent in Haiti would want to give their child away or sell them in to slavery. If the parent sold the kid to the slave trade they would probably get enough money to support them for a year at the least.
ReplyDeleteEben, I agree with you for the most part. What you pointed out definitely makes the American church group appear shady. Were they truly involved in the slave trade? That is what I'm beginning to think, but I can not be certain without more details. If these parents were willing to simply give their children away, perhaps money really was the motive. Why else would all these people go about the situation illegally? Nevertheless, it is impossible to know exactly what transpired. It is still possible that the parents wanted the best for their children and truly believed the small church group. After all, the orphanage was supposed to be just across the island, and they were living in destruction at the time.
ReplyDeleteIt would be interesting to point that out. Their entire mistake could have been solved by simple common sense. You would think that one of the ten would have had the sense of one of us. I find it hard to believe that anyone would take up that deal though. It's just so inhumane to sell another human being that I don't think I'd do it for even a million dollars.
ReplyDeleteWOW! Very impressed with your comments. Can't wait to see what you bring to class on Friday!!!! Just wanted to say that you have to keep in mind the devastation these families have just endured. In tragedy people do things they wouldn't otherwise do. The sad thing is, at the time I'm sure they feel giving their kids a new life is best, but may regret their decision once their lives start to go back to normal.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure how I feel about this. Although these people's "hearts were in the right place" what they did was still wrong. I understand that they wanted better lives for the children, but I don't think taking children away from their families is healthy for them.
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ReplyDeletepersonally, I think that the church group should not go to jail. They obviously weren't trying to kidnap the kids. On the other hand, if they wanted to help the kids they should have just gone through the government. They have already gotten punished enough from the fear of going to jail. Also, the kids should have definitely had a say in what was happening to them. They were old enough to understand what's going on.
ReplyDeleteI believe the people did the wrong thing. I think they should just help the country instead of taking people out. Even though the people believed what they did was right, all is does is hurt the family they took the child from.
ReplyDeleteI agree with what most of you are saying; the church group may have thought they were helping, but instead they were actully hurting the children. As for the theroies on the church group taking the children as slaves, will we ever know? We will just have to wait and see.
ReplyDeletei think that if the parents of the children wanted the kids to be taken out of the counrty for they childrens sake then the church group was doing the right thing. But i also think that it was a little sketchy that there was no orphange and the church leader was in debt. where were they going to get the money to build this orphange?
ReplyDeleteI think that the church group should have gone to the government before they even thought about taking the childern out of the country. Maybe they might even have been taking them out to use them as child slaves since they didn't go to register with the officials of the country. Even if they knew what they were doing, they went about it the wrong way.
ReplyDeleteThe "Church Group" was in the wrong by trying to take children out of the country in the first place. I think if they were real people trying to help, they would of got permission from the government. But all of their reasons for this doesn't really make sense.
ReplyDeleteI agree that what the church group did was wrong. However, I also believe that they were only trying to help. But then again they should have asked for permission from the government and they did end up hurting the children. But they didnt mean to hurt they ment to help.Right now its hard to decide the wrong and the right.
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